In this spotlight: we chat with a few members of the “Editorial Organism” of Technoetic Arts: A Journal of Speculative Research. In this conversation, we learn about the hybrid nature of their journal — it’s subscription based, but they use PubPub to connect with their community and announce events — along with their interactive cybernetic picnics. They also share what it means to have a fluid organizational structure (aka an extitution) and how that impacts the structure of their journal and community.

Introductions to the Organism

Sarah

So we'll start off with a round of introductions, and then we'll get into the questions. Claudia, how about you start? We'll go in alphabetical order by first name.

Claudia

I was born in Germany in a small town called Heidelberg, typically quite well known in the US because of its ‘romantic’ history, and maybe also known because it was, for many years, a US Army base in Europe. Now, I am based in China and teach at Xi’an Jiaotong- Liverpool in Suzhou, China. I have a background in architecture and art, and I'm a member of the Editorial Organism of Technoetic Arts.

Dalila

My name is Dalila Honorato. I was born in Portugal, shortly after the end of the dictatorship, in 1974, and I grew up in a suburban area of Lisbon. For the last 25 years, I've been living in Greece. I am presently working at the Ionian University in Corfu. My background is in media theory and philosophy of communication. Now I'm developing most of my research in the field of art and science. And I am also a member of the Editorial Organism of Technoetic Arts.

Iannis (John)

And I am Iannis (John) Bardakos, born in Athens, Greece. Currently, I'm living in France, mostly Paris. And I'm teaching in China, as well. I'm an artist, and I've been doing work and research bridging mathematics, art and technology.

Sarah

So you mentioned that you're part of the Editorial Organism. Could you maybe describe what that is and sort of how that organizational structure works in your community? I think it's a unique aspect of how you are set up.

Claudia

All three of us are members of the so-called Editorial Organism of the academic journal Technoetic Arts: A Journal of Speculative Research, published by Intellect Publishers based in the UK. Besides the three of us, there are also three other members of the Editorial Organism. What characterizes our group is that we are all involved in speculative art research. I guess one could say that we tend to question the divide between theory and practice. Within this journal, we are reflecting on practice – often in theory – but we are also questioning what reflecting itself means. Technoetic Arts is interested in transdisciplinary projects and research.

Many of us in this community are involved in different fields of higher education, and Technoetic Arts is characterised by the integration of multiple disciplines. This reflects the concept of an organism — the organism is something that is not only a unity, it is something that is communicating within and without its borders: it develops, survives, evolves, and can create different complexities with its environment. It is in a word experimental: it is radically oriented towards the future, embracing uncertainties. Our community goes beyond the Editorial Organism. It is a community that evolves around the journal. As such, it obviously involves readers, a publisher, reviewers, authors, guest editors, advisory boards, and editorial boards. There is also an extended community of non-subscribing casual readers.

Extitutional organization

Sarah

Yeah, that makes sense. Kind of like how you're describing the organism is also constantly evolving and changing. But that kind of makes me wonder, how does the experimental and speculative components translates to editorial organism organizational structure, I think you call yourself an execution? So maybe you could unpack that term a little bit too and say a little bit more about how that ties into like your mission as a journal?

Iannis (John)

It's quite interesting, in contrast to the institution, the extitution is a structure that is focused on the relationship with the members. It's a different point of view, it's a different lens of observing dynamic social dynamics. For example, the members of the organism decide in an organic way, not enforced by any identities or structural elements of our existence. Besides these, there are other elements—some kind of cultural scaffolding. And it has nothing to do with rigid versions of identities, or authorities.

Dalila

It should be said that the concept of Editorial Organism was not created by us. We were invited to become members. It was conceived by the founding editor of the journal, Roy Ascott, who founded the journal in 2003, and remained responsible for the editorial line until 2020. I think that he was actually very aware, back in 2020, that you need more than a normal institution, you need more than a collective, you need more than a group of people. Because we barely knew each other it was a long process of acquaintance.

Sarah

Back when Roy was leading it, was it still sort of like an organism then? Or was he the main one leading it and it sort of branched out and became like a bigger organism after he stepped down? I'm just trying to just clarify.

Claudia

Back then, the journal had a typical academic structure: he was the chief editor, and there were associated editors, but there was no Editorial Organism. When Ascott stepped down, it was clear that, in order to keep the community alive, it would need more than one person. It would need ‘something’ that works in a very different way. He could do it because of his background, because of his history, and his fame also. But when he stepped down, it became clear that it would be more healthy to distribute the work to a team.

Sarah

Yeah, having run publications myself, it is very hard to do by yourself, you need, you need a whole team for sure.

Dalila

Things have become more complex also, in this field of academic editorial work. As the internet and the digital world gets more into our lives, we are dealing with a more strict system with regard to citations and almost a need to be published when you are working in higher education.

Sarah

Yeah, that that's, that's totally fair, I definitely understand and sympathize with the complexity of publish or perishing in places that it doesn't make sense. Why do we need these very adjacent structures around the art we're trying to make?

Virtual Picnics: organically shifting roles & creating community

“The normal stuff doesn’t work”

Sarah

But getting more back to the point, it makes me wonder given the past few years of the pandemic and everything, how your community and maybe even how speculative art has changed as you've been the part of the organism?

Claudia

There was suddenly this point when I thought, "Okay, the normal stuff doesn't work." It was at that point in time when I started to work frequently in collaborations and also experimented a lot more with what would be possible over a distance virtually. So in a way, I work a lot more effectively now than before the pandemic, as most of what I do happens in a group setting—is collaborative. This community and this Organism facilitated this development, too.

Dalila

Obviously, in our case, geographically speaking, we're really far from each other. With or without the pandemic, it would be a long-distance relationship anyway. We still need tools that somehow can bring us together to the level of interpersonal communication. And hopefully, that will be possible in future.

Iannis (John)

During this period, we also got tired of very rigid identities, as members of the Editorial Organism, and as part of the community that was starting to self-define itself.

Sarah

How did you sort of notice that the community was sort of breaking down those roles and like wanting to be more or less than what they had been defined as?

Iannis (John)

This is a question that is very difficult to answer because it is still in process. It is still happening right now. But there are a lot of activities, such as meetings, conferences, and other events, that relate to the journal somehow, therefore interacting with the principles of Technoetic Arts.

Cybernetic picnics

Sarah

What are some of these instances? And what are some of the things that you do as a journal that, you know, are not just like traditional journal things? You mentioned, having events and conferences, and I hope that we'll also talk about some of the cybernetic picnics that you run too.

Claudia

When the journal was founded, Roy Ascot already had a community. At the time, the journal was also meant to be a tool to support this community. We have been exploring ideas on how we could further expand the journal’s reach also in pandemic times. That was when the cybernetic picnic came into being. We run it on a platform called Wonder. It is more spatial than other applications. The picnic is about developing ideas through communication. And it's fun. It's supposed to be fun. We have run it three times so far. For the International Society for the Systems Sciences, the American Society of Cybernetics, and the Systemic Design Association. People join the picnic with virtual objects. They meet in smaller groups and transform the objects into devices of communication, helping them to develop conversations.

Sarah

Could you share an example of an object someone will bring and how that's transformed? That sounds really interesting.

Claudia

We call it cybernetic picnic, and so we ask people to bring cybernetic objects. The audience needs to decide what a cybernetic object can be. Our introduction provides some ideas, for example, it lists a Gregory Bateson camera. We could say, typically, a camera is a camera, but a Gregory Bateson camera is a way of seeing. It is a particular way of looking at the world. Bateson is well known for using the camera to explore play among otters and other animals, for example. Margaret Mead and Gregory Bateson used cameras in anthropological research. So, in this case, the camera is not just a camera. At the picnic, we discuss what makes this way of seeing so special and how we can deconstruct it into a device that helps us today.

Dalila

All the communication is unstructured, and we are not addressing a super large audience. The fact that you can bring objects allows for the sharing of something haptic, something that has texture and induces memory. This feeling was missing in online communication. By bringing common objects, or objects that are just interpreted in a different way, you can start to have a parallel conversation. Those are also techniques that can be developed to enrich communication among small groups. That also can bring some advanced, deeper conversation.

Sarah

So it sounds like the cybernetic picnics are there in person events?

Claudia

No, they are happening in the virtual world. I have created in-person picnics for the students at my university in China. However, these are very different, even though they also deal with objects and the transformation of objects for conversation. During the pandemic, we have translated the in-person environments and techniques for the virtual world. For both types of picnics, attendees re-construct objects. It is a design exercise which is not meant to be for designers only. It is a way of exploring the world.

Iannis (John)

This kind of concept is a type of aesthetic hacking of ideas from the physical and the semiotic worlds. And I think this is why it is an interesting tool.

Sarah

So where do you host these cybernetic picnics? Who participates in them and how do you encourage that?

Claudia

The platform is called Wonder. While it is a video conferencing platform, it organises things in such a way that you see how people move through the virtual environment. There is spatiality. You see a kind of map, and you also see where groups have formed. There might be a group of four in one corner and a group of five elsewhere. You can join a group and stay or go to another. It works differently from a platform with breakout rooms that will never tell you whether there are people in other rooms.

Hybrid models: blending tradition with experimentation

Sarah

Coming back to the idea of how publications have changed over time and become more digital, I'm kind of curious as to how publishing openly has changed your organization or model or how that's increased author and editor contributions and interactions within the picnics or otherwise.

Claudia

The PubPub platform is an extension of the journal. It serves the community, but it's not normally publishing what we publish in the journal because the journal is distributed by the publisher on the basis of a subscription model. What we publish on PubPub is facilitating publishing as a procedure. It's also where we announce extra events promoting what's happening in the journal. It's also a part of an ongoing experiment. And I think for us that is really important. We enjoy using PubPub as a collaborative writing tool. We have written a few texts together while being connected via video conferencing at the same time. Collaborating on the same texts at the same time as one Editorial Organism is a very interesting writing experience.

Iannis (John)

I would add that it enriches the experience of Technoetic Arts. Artists do art-based research and thus have more to show than just a text. Therefore all these videos, VR, digital, non-digital, and all this complexity, can be hosted on our PubPub as an extension to the publication.

Dalila

We are still exploring the possibilities. Every six months, we will probably change or add a different collection. PubPub can be seen as the face of the Editorial Organism as a group, allowing us to communicate with other members within the community of journal publishing.

Sarah

Yeah, I think that's cool that you said like every six months that you create new collections? Is it like you're shuffling around existing content? Or are you like creating new sort of structures of how your community is oriented on Pub Pub?

Dalila

First of all, our communication strategy is very fluid and natural. As we started two years ago, the communication needs show up at their own speed. Any content posted is usually the result of a long chain of emails between the members of the Editorial Organism and the authors, reviewers, guest editors etc. And then, by the third email, we say, "Okay, we have to put this somewhere." Through our pubs, we are, in a way, doing some sort of introduction to the editorial work. Maybe in the future, this will be the starting seed for another sort of publication. Our content follows the production of the journal. In the beginning, PubPub was just for us in the Editorial Organism. At this stage, it is about the calls for articles, general information for journal collaborators, and finally, advertizing once the issues are out.

Claudia

Only a small fraction of the pages are public. Most pages are internal pages actually. We use them to organize the work that has to be done.

Sarah

I think a lot of communities do that, too: keeping a lot of organizational collections and Pubs definitely behind the scenes. What sort of elements that you've experimented with on PubPub in your semi-constant restructuring of your community? Or if there are limitations that are keeping you from creating a more fluid community?

Claudia

We enjoy its simplicity. It's so easy to set up. While one could say this simplicity creates limitations, it has many advantages too. It's so easy to tell someone who has never been writing any HTML code how to use PubPub and show them how to write, edit, and annotate. For us, PubPub has been a conceptual innovation. What is the structure that the collection should have? What are the elements that are more useful? The cleanness of the PubPub environment allows us to focus on what is meaningful content. I haven't checked if there are some special effects like fireworks coming from the pages if you press specific buttons, but as soon as I find out something that's completely amazing, I’ll let you know.

Sarah

Well we do have custom CSS options so if you know how to code for that, you can make it happen.

Claudia

I fear I would receive a rejection from the Editorial Organism for the fireworks.

Sarah

How do you as an organism choose these themes of the journal issues? And are there any upcoming ones that people should be on the lookout for?

Dalila

We're celebrating our second anniversary as an Editorial Organism. We have inherited our initial content. Our academic networks also serve as a great support for Technoetic Arts. Conferences and festivals, for example, allow us to exchange ideas with younger researchers and artists who have wondered how they can write an article, or how they can start publishing. These encounters also allow us to discuss possible topics for future issues keeping in mind that the journal has a line – art, technology and consciousness. Some of special issues we have released are connected with conferences, such as Taboo Transgression, Transcendence in Art and Science, which already has three special issues. There is also a long tradition with the conference Consciousness Reframed, created by Roy Ascott.

Claudia

Our issues cover the topic base of art plus. Art is the focus, but there is also always a ‘reaching out’ to science or technology. There is an interest in expanding the use of art-based methodologies of research to explore other subjects. We're also looking at what is underexplored elsewhere, what is not getting enough attention.

Feminism and language

Dalila

In October 2022, we had a FEMeeting conference for women in art, science and technology. And when we're saying women, we are being very broad: individuals who self-identify as such. In parallel, the Editorial Organism promoted a call about women's research: what are the methodologies and the topics that are being covered? In the art laboratory, what are the strategies for collaboration, for knowledge sharing? Possibly, we are going to have more intimate content in this issue of Technoetic Arts with many accounts of personal practices. We are doing a big effort to publish different types of texts, not limited rigid knowledge production. We're trying to create resources for different researchers. We are concerned about gender balance and wide geographic inclusion. The academic world has enforced the use of the English language. The fact that, within the Editorial Organism, we live in three different writing systems, creates a mindset: what is the meaning of words? What is the instrumentalisation that you give to language? And how can you use words in a more poetic way and still be both scientifically and artistically correct?

Iannis (John)

There is a huge body of work of art, that has not yet been properly used by the academic world as a library of knowledge as it is not scientific. But it doesn't have to be scientific. The poetics of this work has a value beyond abstract. It has another philosophical and aesthetic meaning. I think that through Technoetic Arts and its discussions, we are somehow trying to bridge theory and practice into transdisciplinarity. Really creating something that makes sense. And it's useful.

Claudia

It's important for us to interfere with established structures. Our practice is not necessarily about creating something so new that it does not fit in anymore. That was never Ascott’s approach. We want to make sure what we do is recognized within an established field. So, this kind of interference – different modes of interaction and collaboration with the established – is something we explore.

Sarah

I absolutely love everything that you just said, all three of you. That's all really interesting. And you know, I think it's really important to acknowledge where you are, and you know, use the systems that are already in place to create sustainable changes that will not just change things for you and your community, but how knowledge dissemination in general happens. So, I think that's really powerful and probably maybe a great place to end on. Thank you all for talking about Technoetic Arts with me.

Dalila, John, and Claudia

Thank you for hosting us.